Posting days on market 'unfair to sellers'
Letters to the Editor
By Inman News, Tuesday, November 11, 2008.Bookmarking Sites
Re: 'NAR addresses 're-listing' practice' (Nov. 10)
Dear Editor:
To me the answer is simply don't allow the "days on market" or "actual days on market" on anything but the brokers' copies of listings. It is unfair to the sellers to have the buyers know how long the home has been on the market.
The buyers think that the seller is desperate and make incredibly low offers. Also -- and much worse -- the buyers know that it is probably in foreclosure and wait until the sellers are desperate, which is why our prices are tanking with every breath in this market.
The buyers don't need to know how long it has been on the market, in my mind. They are supposed to be looking for a home, whether to live in or to invest in, and that is all the information they should have at their fingertips, from my point of view.
Terynna "Trina" Willhoit
Solid Rock Realty
Longwood, Fla.
***
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Submitted by Kevin Lisota on November 11, 2008 - 10:44am.
In our market (Seattle), the MLS has released this data to the public due to strong demand from consumers. I believe that the trend nationwide will be to release more and more information to consumers.
Submitted by William Metzker on November 11, 2008 - 2:16pm.
Well, really. What other information should be witheld from people making the biggest investment in their lives?
Buyers, by and large, are more market savvy than sellers. A house too-many-days-on-market has been on the market too long for a reason, and sellers need to come to terms with that. If they don't like the price a buyer offers, they don't have to take it.
Submitted by Russell Benson on November 11, 2008 - 2:23pm.
I completely disagree that the info should not be released. It's all part of the process and if a home has been on the market for a long time, that will have an effect on the amount a person should be willing to offer on that home. Homes priced accoring to market that are in good condition will sell within the normal time frame, at least that is the case here in Oklahoma where the market has not suffered as in other places. We're in an age where comsumers making this huge investment want to know everything they can.
Russell Benson
Prudential Alliance Realty
russell@russellbenson.com
Submitted by Danilo Bogdanovic on November 11, 2008 - 2:29pm.
Days On Market is a ridiculous thing and its use should be stopped immediately. Real estate is the only non-perishable thing that uses anything like it.
Do you buy a car based on how long it's been sitting on the lot? Do you buy a TV based on how long it's been sitting in the back of the store? Do you buy a toothpaste based on how long it's been on the store shelf?
It punishes sellers for no reason. For example...
A seller had a crappy agent that overpromised them and came up with a market value higher than what it really was and the property didn't sell.
The seller then fires that agent, finds a new agent and relists the property for the true market value, if not less.
Buyers will then either pass up the property because "there must be something wrong with it because it's been on the market for so long" or they think they can low-ball the seller because of the total Days On Market despite it being relisted at an excellent price just a few days ago.
Not sure who came up with Days On Market in the first place, but it has no place in real estate (just like it doesn't have a place in other industries).
Danilo Bogdanovic
Real Estate Consultant, Realtor
http://www.LoudounScene.com
http://www.LoudounForeclosures.com
Submitted by Barry Noble on November 11, 2008 - 2:47pm.
Honesty and clarity is necessary for real estate transactions or we will never get out of the mess to which the sub-prime loans have dragged us down. The probability is great that a property listed for months in the MLS is being listed well above the then current market value for the neighborhood or type of property. It behooves the seller to understand the market, find out what the listing appraisal value is and offer it in that range - or sit for another 6 months. That's why sensible sellers get a listing appraisal, and understand if the Market Cycle is still in a decline, that value will continue to drop - so the more competitive the listing the price - the faster the chance to sell it. Hiding the days on the market won't sell a property that is a year higher than its Current Market Value in a declining Market cycle. Sorry. Get a listing appraisal, get it sold and get on with your life, and the best of luck for all of it.
Submitted by Peter J. Pike on November 11, 2008 - 3:03pm.
One of the benefits of "days on market" is that it helps to define market value. A property that has been on the market for several months, and has had its asking price lowered during that time, provides a gauge as to what other sellers need to do to price their homes accordingly. I am often asked whether someone who must short sell their home should put it on the market at a very low price, in order to get a quick offer. My advice (assuming that a foreclosure auction is not right around the corner) is to price it slightly above what the agent believes a fair and reasonable price would be, and then to aggressively reduce the price every four or five weeks (by 4 - 5%) in order to get the best possible offer, in the lease amount of time. Being able to see what other houses in the neighborhood have been listed at, and more importantly, for how long, allows the listing agent to properly assist in setting an asking price.
Submitted by RK Ruthman on November 11, 2008 - 3:31pm.
When did honesty, due diligence, and disclosure become "unfair"?
Especially in this "interesting market", (as I like to call it),if a house has been on the market a while, and a buyer likes it...well, then buyer was lucky no one picked it up before him.
Negotiation is the name of the game nowadays for both parties.---Get used to it.
Submitted by Sam Smith on November 11, 2008 - 6:23pm.
Just as a part of the chorus "all" public information that is available should be presented. We have for so long kept important decision making info from the buyers. And look where we are today. In the Forbes poll of respected "professions" we are 23rd just ahead of attorneys. Until we as "professionals" are required more than only a beating heart and the ability to pay the NAR and other fees as our entry into the "business," not profession, nothing will change and we will continue to foster a less than accurate picture of the real real estate market.
Submitted by Susan Zanzonico on November 11, 2008 - 6:56pm.
I agree with RK. Knowing the days on the market is part of full disclosure. A good buyer's realtor should have access and share it with their buyers. Its an important part of the big picture.
Short Hills NJ Real Estate
Submitted by John Rakoci on November 11, 2008 - 9:47pm.
If making "days on market" available to the public then making dates and amounts of price reductions also is needed to be made public. Some things may be best left to to discussed between an interested buyer and his Realtor. After several reductions a home may be below value due to over-pricing in the 1st place. Agents need to price the home correctly in the 1st place. Giving false hope to a seller is not a good thing. Those that will inflate an ask to get the listing are also getting a reputation of not knowing their business. Additionally, doing so only hurts their client in the long run. If the buyer insists on an inflated price I prefer to have someone elses name on the listing.
Submitted by Lenn Harley on November 12, 2008 - 2:50am.
It's been said many times that "everything in real estate is negotiable". True. However, a better statement would be "everything in real estate is fungible".
DOM is factual and I can't see that it helps the buyer or harms the seller. I pay little to no attention to it when selecting homes for sale to show. I've learned that the multitude of reasons for long DOM often have nothing to do with value but are often due to access, mistakes in the MLS, not photos, etc.
Buyers think that long DOM believe that it reveals defects in the property. Sellers think that long DOM is none of the public's business.
I have sole some wonderful homes with long DOM. OTOH, I've seen newly listed homes that were overpriced, hard to show, mistakes in the MLS, etc.
Just show the homes in the price range and location of choice and don't try to overthink too much and buyers will find the best home for their needs.
Lenn Harley
Broker
Homefinders.com
http://www.homefinders.com
Submitted by Anne Hensel on November 12, 2008 - 5:45am.
Days on the market. What does it really tell you?
Let’s be clear about this. There are only 2 reasons why a home does not sell.
It is either totally overpriced or the marketing and advertising is insufficient.
I know some will argue with me now about “it is a handy man special, it has a strange floor plan, it is the location, there were a few short sales in the area, the color scheme does not appeal to buyers, the flood insurance rate is so high. . . . . Well, I am not arguing with you, all this has to be reflected in the asking price, if it is not, you are over priced.
So, back to days on the market. The house or condo only sits there forever if it is overpriced or not advertised and that is the only thing it will tell a buyer. Big deal, why not disclose it? Today’s buyer is smart enough to understand this and to make an educated decision if the house is right for him or not – no matter how long it has been on the market.
Anne Hensel
Broker, ABR, E-PRO, C-CREC, ASR, AHS, TRC, RECS
South Beaches Real Estate Professionals
727 409 8706 www.Southbeaches.info
Submitted by Joseph Ballarino on November 12, 2008 - 6:43am.
I don't think we are going to have a choice. The consumers are going to want that information, and if Realtors don't provide it, eventually someone else will. The task is trying to find a way, within the MLS, to paint a very true picture of the history of the real estate listing.
Submitted by Lynn Wilber on November 12, 2008 - 8:08am.
Lynn H. Wilber, GRI, e-PRO
Broker-Assoicate - Downing Frye Realty, Inc. - Naples, FL
www.NaplesWave.com
www.NaplesWave.com/NaplesBlog
A professional Realtor® will look at the days on the market AND the price reductions to advise their Buyers. If there is a lengthy time on the market and no price reductions, this will tell me the home has an unmotivated Seller. If there is a lengthy time on the market and consistent price reductions, this will indicate to me that the Seller is motivated to sell. Sharing this information with Buyers is imperative to the decision they must make on the offering price. Attempting to put in a low offer on an overpriced home that has been on the market next to forever with no price reductions is almost a guaranteed no win situation.
Submitted by Michael Espiritu on November 12, 2008 - 10:57am.
This viewpoint is exactly why Realtors are held in such low regard! Days on market is extremely important for a buyer to know. It is also useful for a seller to know their price is too high.
Transparency,truth,full disclosure and ethical dealings should be the cornerstones of a real estate practitioner!
Flakey agents like this need to bail immediately!
She's either old-school or totally clueless!I wonder if she was a buyer's agent if she would feel the same way???
Michael Espiritu
Broker
Copeland Wealth Management /CWM Real Estate
SoCal
Submitted by Susie Blackmon on November 14, 2008 - 1:13am.
I agree with Michael Espiritu 100%.
Susie Blackmon
http://www.BuckingtheRealEstateTrend.com
Submitted by Paul Howard on November 17, 2008 - 4:55am.
Terynna in the first post said,=========== "To me the answer is simply don't allow the "days on market" or "actual days on market" on anything but the brokers' copies of listings. It is unfair to the sellers to have the buyers know how long the home has been on the market." ==============
This must mean either that Terynna never represents buyers or that when she does she withholds relevant information from the buyer. Taken together with the existence of or lack of price reductions during the marketing period, the quality of the listing information (listings with no photos will linger longer than others as will those missing other relevant information such as room sizes), the market in the neighborhood, condition of the home and other factors, days on market provides useful information to a buyer which they WILL know if their agent is a true advocate. Granted, many are not advocates and dual agents never are but many agent are too. Buyer's must be careful as even members of REBAC (Real Estate Buyer Agents Council) will work as dual agents. The only national association whose members don't do dual agency and only represent buyers is the National Association of Exclusive Buyer Agents - NAEBA ( http://www.naeba.org ). It's a pretty sure bet that they all support disclosure of total days on market.
Paul Howard, Broker
NJHomeBuyer.com Realty
Cherry Hill NJ 08002
http://www.SouthJerseyHomes.com
Submitted by Dave Grote on November 18, 2008 - 6:07am.
Days on the Market - How many people won't buy a product at the store after looking at its expiration or buy before date?
The Realtor works with the seller to come to a satisfactory sale price. This sales price is based on factual information for the unit and area. IF the seller decides to go HIGH with the price he or she knows the approx. time it will take to sell.
As a Realtor what do you advise your seller to do?
Sell within the range of those units that have closed within the last six months or less?///
Yes, buyers should have this info. available and seriously question the reason for an excessive time on the market without selling (i.e. how many times has it been on the market and why).
Market time is very valuable to ALL concerned unless someone is trying to hide something.
Submitted by i-Hudson Realty NY -- carrie gingrich on November 18, 2008 - 9:32pm.
I agree that DOM inquiries are unfair to sellers. It is also the buyer's right to know. Full disclosure is the only option.
Submitted by Kristin Noll-Marsh on November 19, 2008 - 1:39pm.
Days on market can be very helpful to sellers - in how to price and market their home.
I recently used DOMs from a certain neighborhood to price my seller/buyer's house AND help get them an accepted offer on their new house.
By showing the sellers of the house we were trying to buy that the neighborhood had DOMs of 25-45 days vs. the 180+ days in other areas, they not only took our offer with a house sale contingency, they didn't bump us when they got a secondary offer with a house sale contingency. The DOMs were better in our area!
Used correctly, DOMs are a powerful tool!
DOMs aren't "unfair" to sellers. If they are priced correctly and being marketed properly, their DOMs won't be a high number and it doesn't hurt them at all. Low DOMs can even get a HIGHER offer for a seller. If the buyer is working with a knowledgable professional, they will be told WHY the DOM is high - because the agent should be an EXPERT and do their due diligence. If my buyer CLIENT asks why a DOM is so high, I'd better be able to tell the difference if it's because of marketing, the market or price!
It's ignorant real estate practitioners who make DOMs "bad" for sellers.
http://bestmilwaukeehomes.com
http://blog/bestmilwaukeehomes.com
Submitted by David Auston on November 20, 2008 - 12:09pm.
The buyer is going to find out anyhow, so what's the point in hiding it. It may have some negative effects, but conversely, it may draw a buyer to a home that they wouldn't have viewed it in the first place.
Naples Fl Homes For Sale
Mediterra Naples Florida
naples Luxury Golf Homes For Sale
Submitted by J. T. on November 23, 2008 - 9:16am.
One reason for the DOM's to be listed I do not see here. As a Realtor my goal is to sell homes. To do this my Buyer's generally need a loan. One of the requirements is for the Appraiser to identify the Days on market. This includes the days a property was listed by a prior Agent as well. Without this information getting a loan will become much more difficult than it even is now. You may want to look at the new Fannie/Freddie form that will be needed early next year. It will include even more information than just the DOM information some of you seem to have a problem with. www.efanniemae.com/sf/formsdocs/forms/1004mc.jsp
will take you to the eFannie page where it can be found. When times get tough Lenders just add to their demands and as long as they control the cash we can only go along with the program.
Whether we like DOM or not we still need to help our Buyers find financing and than, for me, presents the biggest argument in favor of this data.
JamesSoCal
Submitted by Ralph M on November 24, 2008 - 7:15am.
WOW!!!!!...All these real estate professionals and not 1 KNOWS their own law that they are licensed under...
Your own law states, "That you owe undivided and absolute loyalty" to your client (the seller if you are listing their property) There are NO benefits to publicizing the DOM on behalf of your sellers…
As far as the full Disclosure BS excuse, that is your seller’s right and NOT yours to disclose this in a disclosure form.
You want an answer to respond to how many days has this property been on the market????? “ONE DAY TOO LONG..
We advise all sellers to litigate against any real estate professional who publicizes the DOM…..
There are NO legal benefits for any real estate professional to publicize a DOM on behalf of a seller.
www.aarsteam.com
Submitted by Katherine Harris on January 4, 2009 - 9:19pm.
This is a fabulous blog - by reading it, I can learn which agents I would hire, and which ones think I am an idiot.
We recently sold one of our homes for a profit and lost a small amount on an investment property. Now we're in an apartment, holding onto our savings and waiting for the market to drop further. Every weekend we scout the best areas, charting properties and digging into tax records, previous purchase prices and dates, and whether it is a foreclosure, estate sale, distressed property OR just someone who apparently doesn't know THIS IS A BAD MARKET FOR SELLERS.
Also, for anyone out there buying a home and reviewing like we are, you can also find out if the sellers are divorcing or going through litigation through public records, records which are freely available to the shrewd and the stupid alike.
People aren't stupid - if you have money in this market and you have the guts to lay it out on an asset that is going to continue to drop in value for the next few years, you probably aren't stupid. In fact, if you did like we did and sold intentionally to have cash to buy when the market tanked, you might be considered a calculating investor.
You guys should have done the math and realized how overblown this bubble was - the population with money is shrinking as baby boomers retire. Newly arrived immigrants don't buy houses, they rent. And the last bust was about 30 years ago - the signs were there, but most of you missed them because you really add no value to the process.
We used a realtor for both homes we sold, and she does add value, which is why we will use her to buy our next home. And you can bet she will tell us the DOM, if we don't already have them already.